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CentOS 8.x CentOS Project Shifts Focus To CentOS 8 Stream Effectively Ending CentOS 8 In 2021

Discussion in 'CentOS, Redhat & Oracle Linux News' started by eva2000, Dec 9, 2020.

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  1. Dec 12, 2020 #41
    eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    My thoughts are evolving as I get more info on this CentOS 8 EOL announcement. So bookmark and watch this thread for updates as time goes by.

    As at December 12, 2020

    Fortunately, CentOS 7 is maintained until 2024. I started this thread for this to share my thoughts and plans and CentOS 8 news as it comes with my Centmin Mod members and info gathered so far we know
    1. Redhat has stated it will not block it’s source rpms or others from rebuilding from their sources so Rocky Linux and other rebuild projects can go ahead
    2. Cloud Linux Q1 2021
    3. CentOS 8 Stream is not a replacement for CentOS 8. But CentOS 8 Stream isn’t as buggy as folks make it out to be as it’s already tested twice, once internally and once via public t_functional test suite before stuff lands in CentOS 8 Stream and CentOS 8 Stream is only a rolling release for major versions and not minor versions. Basically, CentOS 8 Stream will become a continuous delivery stream that takes in Redhat nightly updates and will eventually become the Redhat Errata updates for Redhat 8+ OS.
    4. Cloud Linux and Rocky Linux are reaching out to each other to collaborate hopefully too.
    Guess I am fortunate that Centmin Mod’s CentOS 8 compatibility developments were still a work in progress while waiting on EPEL 8 to reach package parity with EPEL 7 CentOS 8.x - Centmin Mod CentOS 8 Compatibility Worklog. My thinking was what would be worse than release CentOS 8 support only for end users to find EPEL 8 packages that end users rely on not being available. But didn’t think there would be a worse case, CentOS 8 EOL in 12 months at end of 2021 !

    Centmin Mod did at once stage work/develop/test for Oracle Linux 6 compatibility ages ago, but with CentOS 7 release, focus was back on CentOS 7.x.

    So now I believe we have 3 contenders
    cPanel and other web hosting panels, probably would go Cloud Linux route and rest of community would support Rocky Linux. cPanel has already posted the plans on their own blog Cent OS 8 End-of-Life Announcement | cPanel Blog and will support continued CentOS 8 development, Cloudflare Linux 8, Rocky Linux 8.3+ and also start a cPanel Ubuntu LTS release version.

    But ultimately what broke is end users trust in CentOS. So guess that will drive folks to these 3 contenders. After all what good is there in control panels developing and support an OS where the actual end users and even distro package developers don’t have the demand and/or trust in?

    Guess I need to build an CentOS 8 rsync 3.23 RPM too for faster data transfers between distro/servers like I did for CentOS 7 CentOS 7.x - Custom Rsync 3.2.3 RPM Builds With xxHash/zstd Support For CentOS 7 - going be alot of data moving in the future LOL
     
  2. Dec 12, 2020 #42
    eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Arstechnica outlined CentOS 8 alternatives Where do I go now that CentOS Linux is gone? Check our list

     
  3. Dec 12, 2020 #43
    Andy

    Andy Active Member

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    I still on centos 7.9 and with my dedicated server annual renewal in April, I need to decide which path to go. I think I will stick to whatever George decides since I know he will build a robust tool for admin like us.
     
  4. Dec 12, 2020 #44
    eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Well CentOS 7.x is supported until 2024 so you have 4 more years for us to decide :)
     
  5. Dec 12, 2020 #45
    Andy

    Andy Active Member

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    Do I remember correctly that you said there is no supported path in centminmod to upgrade to centos 8 from 7 and I need to get a new server?
     
  6. Dec 12, 2020 #46
    eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Yes CentOS doesn't have in place upgrade paths for CentOS 6 to 7 or 7 to 8 and need to reinstall OS - hence migrate data from a CentOS 7 to CentOS 8 server. Limitation is from CentOS and not Centmin Mod. Just as well as CentOS 8 has major changes underhood anyway so you'd want to do a fresh install.
     
  7. Dec 12, 2020 #47
    buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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    Red Hat's marketing department is running at full speed.
    I've never seen so many marketing slogans pass by at CentOS.
    I've just listed them:

    If it would be true that: 'CentOS Stream is already as stable as RHEL' and 'CentOS Stream is the stable and reliable continuous delivery of RHEL'.

    Then you immediately disprove your own CentOS Stream.
    After all, if CentOS Stream would be equally stable, you would not need CentOS Stream at all and you would create a solution and product (CentOS Stream), for a problem that does not exist.

    Nowhere but a word to the real reason. Don't give the flagship away for free.
    Use the loyal CentOS users which we have anyway as free BETA testers.

    Job done! dual solution: Creates money on licenses and saves money on beta testing.

    When I look in my social network, among others colleagues, other companies.
    Then there are 'secretly' many, hundreds of thousands production servers at least on CentOS.

    Often large companies or universities that can easily pay for a license or even 10000 x license.

    But because of the freely available CentOS and the level and knowledge of the employees inhouse. They purchased a license from Red Hat for mission critical systems only.
    Red Hat of course wants all systems licensed.

    But what are the benefits?

    There is absolutely no reason to use CentOS 'RHEL BETA' Stream in production.
    Apart from that. Why beta testing for Red Hat anyway,
    on your own production environment with all the consequences for you. And only you.

    I don't read the word beta anywhere. Just only that Red Hat believes that you as a CentOS Stream user, does have more advantage than before as CentOS user.
    Not substantiated with facts. But only covered with vague pictures about how packages are developed from Fedora to CentOS Stream and finally delivered to Red Hat EL.

    This user expresses it aptly, yet informally.

    The best subtle thing is probably this cryptic description.
    'Derive from CentOS Stream'. LOL!

    Facebook probably runs CentOS 7 or fork with its own packages. And yes of course that's a derive from CentOS Stream. Since CentOS Stream was the forerunner of CentOS.

     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
  8. Dec 13, 2020 #48
    rdan

    rdan Well-Known Member

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    I think this changes is comparable to Nginx Mainline & Nginx Plus.
    At-least Nginx is not so critical than the OS itself.
     
  9. Dec 13, 2020 #49
    deltahf

    deltahf Premium Member Premium Member

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    I always thought CentOS seemed a bit "too good to be true". Now it seems that those days are coming to an end.

    The next year will be very interesting, indeed. Looking forward to the discussions here to see where we're all headed...
     
  10. Dec 13, 2020 #50
    eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Facebook at those RPMs way before CentOS 8 was out. I used some of those RPMs for newer systems versions for when I was playing with Ubuntu LXD containers as well as CentOS 7's systems was too old for LXD.
    Yeah probably close. Though Nginx didn't announce ending free Nginx version :)
    Yeah very interesting. I'm going to setup a test LXD container server to be able to spin up and snapshot different Linux OSes like I did previously. Previously I used Ubuntu 18 for LXD server, but will try Ubuntu 20.04 for LXD server this time.

    I spun up CentOS 7.9, CentOS 8.3, Debian 10, Oracle 8.3 and Ubuntu 20.04 guest LXD containers to play with.

    Code (Text):
    lxc list
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+
|   NAME   |  STATE  |        IPV4         |                     IPV6                     |   TYPE    | SNAPSHOTS |
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+
| centos79 | RUNNING | 10.10.10.93 (eth0)  | fd42:c19:1dbf:b8d7:216:3eff:fe16:7dfb (eth0) | CONTAINER | 0         |
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+
| centos80 | RUNNING | 10.10.10.101 (eth0) | fd42:c19:1dbf:b8d7:216:3eff:fe64:cf6d (eth0) | CONTAINER | 0         |
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+
| debian10 | RUNNING | 10.10.10.19 (eth0)  | fd42:c19:1dbf:b8d7:216:3eff:fef8:ede (eth0)  | CONTAINER | 0         |
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+
| oracle80 | RUNNING | 10.10.10.7 (eth0)   | fd42:c19:1dbf:b8d7:216:3eff:fefc:8d02 (eth0) | CONTAINER | 0         |
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+
| ubuntu20 | RUNNING | 10.10.10.131 (eth0) | fd42:c19:1dbf:b8d7:216:3eff:feec:546f (eth0) | CONTAINER | 0         |
+----------+---------+---------------------+----------------------------------------------+-----------+-----------+


    Code (Text):
    lxc exec ubuntu20 -- cat /etc/lsb-release
DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu
DISTRIB_RELEASE=20.04
DISTRIB_CODENAME=focal
DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS"

lxc exec ubuntu20 -- cat /etc/os-release
NAME="Ubuntu"
VERSION="20.04.1 LTS (Focal Fossa)"
ID=ubuntu
ID_LIKE=debian
PRETTY_NAME="Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS"
VERSION_ID="20.04"
HOME_URL="https://www.ubuntu.com/"
SUPPORT_URL="https://help.ubuntu.com/"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/"
PRIVACY_POLICY_URL="https://www.ubuntu.com/legal/terms-and-policies/privacy-policy"
VERSION_CODENAME=focal
UBUNTU_CODENAME=focal

    Code (Text):
    lxc exec debian10 -- cat /etc/os-release
PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)"
NAME="Debian GNU/Linux"
VERSION_ID="10"
VERSION="10 (buster)"
VERSION_CODENAME=buster
ID=debian
HOME_URL="https://www.debian.org/"
SUPPORT_URL="https://www.debian.org/support"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.debian.org/"

lxc exec debian10 -- cat /etc/debian_version
10.7

    Code (Text):
    lxc exec centos79 -- cat /etc/redhat-release
CentOS Linux release 7.9.2009 (Core)

lxc exec centos79 -- cat /etc/os-release
NAME="CentOS Linux"
VERSION="7 (Core)"
ID="centos"
ID_LIKE="rhel fedora"
VERSION_ID="7"
PRETTY_NAME="CentOS Linux 7 (Core)"
ANSI_COLOR="0;31"
CPE_NAME="cpe:/o:centos:centos:7"
HOME_URL="https://www.centos.org/"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.centos.org/"

CENTOS_MANTISBT_PROJECT="CentOS-7"
CENTOS_MANTISBT_PROJECT_VERSION="7"
REDHAT_SUPPORT_PRODUCT="centos"
REDHAT_SUPPORT_PRODUCT_VERSION="7"

    Code (Text):
    lxc exec centos80 -- cat /etc/redhat-release
CentOS Linux release 8.3.2011

lxc exec centos80 -- cat /etc/os-release
NAME="CentOS Linux"
VERSION="8"
ID="centos"
ID_LIKE="rhel fedora"
VERSION_ID="8"
PLATFORM_ID="platform:el8"
PRETTY_NAME="CentOS Linux 8"
ANSI_COLOR="0;31"
CPE_NAME="cpe:/o:centos:centos:8"
HOME_URL="https://centos.org/"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.centos.org/"
CENTOS_MANTISBT_PROJECT="CentOS-8"
CENTOS_MANTISBT_PROJECT_VERSION="8"

    Code (Text):
    lxc exec oracle80 -- cat /etc/oracle-release
Oracle Linux Server release 8.3

lxc exec oracle80 -- cat /etc/os-release
NAME="Oracle Linux Server"
VERSION="8.3"
ID="ol"
ID_LIKE="fedora"
VARIANT="Server"
VARIANT_ID="server"
VERSION_ID="8.3"
PLATFORM_ID="platform:el8"
PRETTY_NAME="Oracle Linux Server 8.3"
ANSI_COLOR="0;31"
CPE_NAME="cpe:/o:oracle:linux:8:3:server"
HOME_URL="https://linux.oracle.com/"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugzilla.oracle.com/"

ORACLE_BUGZILLA_PRODUCT="Oracle Linux 8"
ORACLE_BUGZILLA_PRODUCT_VERSION=8.3
ORACLE_SUPPORT_PRODUCT="Oracle Linux"
ORACLE_SUPPORT_PRODUCT_VERSION=8.3
     
  11. Dec 13, 2020 #51
    buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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    Couldn't resist putting this effective quote on CentOS's response. :)
    Effective if you ask me.

     
  12. Dec 13, 2020 #52
    buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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    Of course it was already announced but now definitely:

     
  13. Dec 14, 2020 #53
    eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Yup consider CentOS 8 dead by end of 2021! I feel sorry for all the businesses who rely on CentOS 8 support for their end users especially if some companies have 1000s of servers to migrate.

    I've extended my LXD container OS testing with addition of CentOS 8 Stream and CentOS 8 to CentOS 8 Stream migration path just to see what's what :D

    Code (Text):
    lxc list -c ns4tS,config:image.os
+--------------------+---------+---------------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
|        NAME        |  STATE  |        IPV4         |   TYPE    | SNAPSHOTS | IMAGE OS |
+--------------------+---------+---------------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
| centos79           | RUNNING | 10.10.10.93 (eth0)  | CONTAINER | 0         | Centos   |
+--------------------+---------+---------------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
| centos80           | RUNNING | 10.10.10.101 (eth0) | CONTAINER | 0         | Centos   |
+--------------------+---------+---------------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
| centos83stream     | RUNNING | 10.10.10.116 (eth0) | CONTAINER | 0         | Centos   |
+--------------------+---------+---------------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
| centos83to83stream | RUNNING | 10.10.10.127 (eth0) | CONTAINER | 0         | Centos   |
+--------------------+---------+---------------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
| debian10           | RUNNING | 10.10.10.19 (eth0)  | CONTAINER | 0         | Debian   |
+--------------------+---------+---------------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
| oracle80           | RUNNING | 10.10.10.7 (eth0)   | CONTAINER | 0         | Oracle   |
+--------------------+---------+---------------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
| ubuntu20           | RUNNING | 10.10.10.131 (eth0) | CONTAINER | 0         | ubuntu   |
+--------------------+---------+---------------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
     
  14. Dec 14, 2020 #54
    eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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  15. Dec 14, 2020 #55
    eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    wow just joined Rocky Linux Slack channel and there's 1000s of users joining!

    slack-rocky-dec15-01.jpg
     
  16. Dec 14, 2020 #56
    eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Oracle Linux blog welcoming CentOS 8 users over https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need...centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux

     
  17. Dec 15, 2020 #57
    deltahf

    deltahf Premium Member Premium Member

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    Is it just me or is the “Rocky Linux” name kind of weird? :ROFLMAO:
     
  18. Dec 16, 2020 #58
    eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Not really. There are always other weird names out there. I even feel funny speaking out aloud 'Centmin Mod' to friends and family :LOL:

    Rocky Linux has started a Wiki site and also a change log at Changelog :D
     
  19. Dec 16, 2020 #59
    eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Cloud Linux has also started a web site for their Cloud Linux 8 free CentOS 8 alternative OS and tentatively named it Project Lenix at Project Lenix and Reddit channel https://www.reddit.com/r/ProjectLenix/
     
  20. Dec 18, 2020 #60
    buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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