Welcome to Centmin Mod Community
Become a Member

CentOS 8.x CentOS Project Shifts Focus To CentOS 8 Stream Effectively Ending CentOS 8 In 2021

Discussion in 'CentOS, Redhat & Oracle Linux News' started by eva2000, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    And https://docs.cloudlinux.com/introduction/


     
  2. buik

    buik “Life is trying things to see if they work.” Premium Member

    1,398
    382
    83
    Apr 29, 2016
    Flanders
    Ratings:
    +1,182
    Local Time:
    1:09 PM
    Nah... I don't think so. Cagefs is to limit resources, dosed.
    To give everyone their equal share, shared hosting on a shared server.

    Centminmod is to get the most out of the resources located especially to your VPS or dedi. In my opinion this is diametrically opposed.
     
  3. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    Yeah but still has been something of interest for me (maybe as an optional feature). But something far away anyway for now.

    Arstechnica wrote an excellent article on this CentOS 8 Stream announcement too and Redhat has confirmed CentOS 8 Stream is not a replacement for CentOS 8 that they're ending. CentOS 8 is effectively dead CentOS Linux is dead—and Red Hat says Stream is “not a replacement”
     
  4. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    Cloud Linux moved their announcement to their own blog post as WHT forums gave them an infraction warning for posting it on WHT forums :rolleyes::LOL: Announcing Open-sourced & Community-Driven RHEL Fork by CloudLinux

     
  5. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    Something I didn't even think of yet but was reminded of https://twitter.com/engintron_sh/status/1337112245294215171 is what about Centmin Mod's name after CentOS 7 EOL in 2024 and all that is left is whatever RH compatible alternative is available - Oracle Linux, Cloud Linux or Rocky Linux? hmmm
     
  6. pamamolf

    pamamolf Premium Member Premium Member

    3,939
    399
    83
    May 31, 2014
    Ratings:
    +773
    Local Time:
    2:09 PM
    Nginx-1.17.x
    MariaDB 10.3.x
    I use it also for a long time now :)
     
  7. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    Handy indeed :)

    Reading on one of the Reddit discussions, will be interesting to see what happens with Amazon AWS's Amazon Linux which was based off of CentOS too AFAIK Linux on AWS. And what will web hosts do now that offer CentOS 8 images? Do you really still offer them up knowing CentOS 8 will be dead this time next year? Or offer up a straight CentOS 8 Stream ISO/image instead?
     
  8. buik

    buik “Life is trying things to see if they work.” Premium Member

    1,398
    382
    83
    Apr 29, 2016
    Flanders
    Ratings:
    +1,182
    Local Time:
    1:09 PM
    Cleverly handled by the CloudLinux management. The product is more or less already there.

    Exactly what CentOS was meant to do, CloudLinux is now going to do.
    To promote your paid product, in a free version.

    Hopefully they don't throw CloudLinux free full of ads.
    Just like Ubuntu does now.
     
  9. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    Yup Cloud Linux is already here and the fact they have KernelCare means they'll have closer control over patching and updates then folks who just rebuild the RH upstream Kernel.

    Rocky Linux is gaining more media attention though. This time from The Register Rocky Linux is go: CentOS founder's new project aims to be 100% compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux

    and on RH not getting in the way of folks rebuilding the RH packages
    And well community projects like these are ultimately dependent on community contribution. Though with Cloud Linux they'd have another group driving it - cPanel and other control panels who rely on CentOS as their OS. They're more liking to switch to Cloud Linux 8 given its position already in shared hosting industry.

    Cloud Linux has also reached out to Rocky Linux to see about what kind of co-colabration can be done too. Afterall, if Rocky Linux does become CentOS replacement, Cloud Linux and it's products would have to support Rocky Linux too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
  10. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    Interesting Twitter thread at https://twitter.com/carlwgeorge/status/1336901625290625024

     
  11. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    FYI, Oracle Linux has updated their centos2ol conversion script to support CentOS 8 to Oracle Linux 8 conversion https://twitter.com/AviAtOracle/status/1337256147208740867

    Note, Centmin Mod doesn't support CentOS 8 nor does it support Oracle Linux 8 right now (haven't completely tested for them)
     
  12. buik

    buik “Life is trying things to see if they work.” Premium Member

    1,398
    382
    83
    Apr 29, 2016
    Flanders
    Ratings:
    +1,182
    Local Time:
    1:09 PM
    Keep in mind that you are not converting the CentOS system 1 on 1 to Oracle Linux but switch to Oracle Linux. And that is running their Unbreakable Enterprise Kernel (UEK) In favor of the Red Hat kernel.

    It is Oracle's right to do so.
    However, I would recommend the Red Hat kernel, for more than one reason.

    Setting up Oracle Linux with the Red Hat kernel (Red Hat Compatible Kernel in Oracle's terminology) is simple:

    BIOS system
    Code:
    mv /etc/yum.repos.d/uek-ol8.repo /etc/yum.repos.d/uek-ol8.repo.none && dnf remove *uek && grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg
    EFI system
    Code:
    mv /etc/yum.repos.d/uek-ol8.repo /etc/yum.repos.d/uek-ol8.repo.none && dnf remove *uek && grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/efi/EFI/redhat/grub.cfg
    Of course, make sure you boot your system manually on the Red Hat kernel. Removing a kernel on which you are running is obviously not possible. (protection error)
     
  13. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    Indeed when I did test with Oracle Linux 6, it was for the newer UEK kernel as CentOS 6 Kernel was just too old. But with CentOS 7 release, the 3.10 Kernel caught up with Oracle UEK kernels. But more I read, the Oracle UEK kernels are not as stable or recommended to use RedHat Kernel??? Is the instability the reason for such recommendations?
     
  14. buik

    buik “Life is trying things to see if they work.” Premium Member

    1,398
    382
    83
    Apr 29, 2016
    Flanders
    Ratings:
    +1,182
    Local Time:
    1:09 PM
    A 7 year old 3.10 kernel has of course become more stable over the years than a 1 year old 5.4 kernel. All thinking bar errors have been patched out by now, after 7 year.

    I use the simple principle: Only use a new version if necessary.

    The kernel 3.10 is smaller than kernel 5.4.
    In the years after 3.10 a lot of features and drivers have been added.
    In case of a problem this also gives extra debugging work.

    There is also a lot (maybe even almost all) of 3th party software compiled with kernel 3.10 and heavily tested with kernel 3.10 and not kernel 5.4. As most 3th party software is compiled on Red Hat's EL kernel-devel and not Oracle's UEK kernel-devel.

    Finally, I have way much more experience with kernel 3.10 than with kernel 5.4.

    When do I prefer UEK?

    For example if it is a must-have and you need to use: BBR: Congestion-Based Congestion Control.
    Then the UEK is the better option.

    For example if you need to use the latest hardware in the future.
    Then the UEK is the better option. As there is no guarantee that Red Hat will port the latest future hardware support to 3.10. The latest current hardware is supported on Red Hat's EL7 kernel although. It is also possible that future hardware remains supported. If not you could use EL8 or UEK.

    Of course it is personal.
    There is nothing wrong with UEK.

    The UEK kernel is nice.
    The Re Hat kernel, however, I think is even better.

     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
  15. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    Totally get what you're saying, just I've been using Elrepo 5.1 to 5.8 Kernels and Linode 5.1 to 5.8 Kernels for ages now. Guess depends on the hardware too though :)
     
  16. buik

    buik “Life is trying things to see if they work.” Premium Member

    1,398
    382
    83
    Apr 29, 2016
    Flanders
    Ratings:
    +1,182
    Local Time:
    1:09 PM
    Of course. Linode knows her platform best. A kernel optimized, specific for the platform is always preferred. No general kernel (best for the rest) can compete with that.

    But this is a very specific case. As far as I know Linode is the only one with custom kernels.

    These kernels are often less than a day old. In my opinion that goes a bridge too far.

    Nothing against the creator (he of course also depends on his upstream: kernel.org).
    But a day old upstream, in my opinion, is not suitable for production.

    Better use kernel-UEK in that case or;

    Hardware costs nothing nowadays.
    Better use more memory or an extra CPU than a few % extra efficiency with an unstable kernel.

    With a VPS it's even easier, switch plans and you're done.
     
  17. SneakyDave

    SneakyDave Member

    84
    14
    8
    Jul 24, 2014
    Ratings:
    +22
    Local Time:
    6:09 AM
    1.0.15
    Ugh. Just did a few installs to CentOS 8. Kind of stuck now. I guess I have a year to move off of it.
    Will they just flip a switch and turn off access to CentOS 8 repositories, or how is that going to work? I'm not worried about the support going away.

    I count on CentOS features mirroring RHEL, so this is a big pain point.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
  18. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    Yeah they do. Though I did ask them once and Linode said their custom 5.x Kernels come directly from kernel.org just built with their additional hardware support and obviously tested.

    Yeah true, I do a yum version lock and have a separate elrepo kernel updater script which can do a version unlock and update so I am not always updating the kernels when they first come out.

    Look at what they did with CentOS 6 it's EOL since November 30, 2020 last month and they pulled all repos. Haven't looked if all mirrors are gone though.

    ok just checked and yup all CentOS 6 mirrrors are gone from actual mirrorlist.txt file at least
    Code (Text):
    yum list updates
    YumRepo Error: All mirror URLs are not using ftp, http[s] or file.
     Eg. Invalid release/repo/arch combination/
    removing mirrorlist with no valid mirrors: /var/cache/yum/x86_64/6/base/mirrorlist.txt
    Error: Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: base
    

    when using mirrorlist at least
    Code (Text):
    [base]
    name=CentOS-$releasever - Base
    mirrorlist=http://mirrorlist.centos.org/?release=$releasever&arch=$basearch&repo=os&infra=$infra
    #baseurl=http://mirror.centos.org/centos/$releasever/os/$basearch/
    gpgcheck=1
    gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-CentOS-6
    priority=1
    
    #released updates
    [updates]
    name=CentOS-$releasever - Updates
    mirrorlist=http://mirrorlist.centos.org/?release=$releasever&arch=$basearch&repo=updates&infra=$infra
    #baseurl=http://mirror.centos.org/centos/$releasever/updates/$basearch/
    gpgcheck=1
    gpgkey=file:///etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-CentOS-6
    priority=1
    

    there's no a Vault Mirror for them Index of /
    CentOS 6.10 Vault Mirror at Index of /6.10 and their RPM packages at Index of /6.10/os/x86_64/Packages

    Yeah you'd be stuck now if you want a stable dev OS for mirroring/testing RHEL. But Redhat next year are meant to release versions or lower cost options for such dev work - probably need to pay I suspect.
     
  19. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    Redhat has also posted an article to clarify what CentOS 8 Streams new roll will be and why/how it came into being. CentOS 8 Stream is now intended to be a continuous delivery tool for Redhat 8+ updates and end up as Redhat Errata Updates CentOS Stream is Continuous Delivery – Blog.CentOS.org

     
  20. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    46,853
    10,629
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +16,497
    Local Time:
    9:09 PM
    Nginx 1.19.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    Redhat also posted a article on how RedHat is made at How RHEL is Made – Blog.CentOS.org