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RHEL has made a new announcement to control the distribution of its source code.

Discussion in 'CentOS, Redhat & Oracle Linux News' started by rdan, Jun 22, 2023.

  1. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Indeed, my stance on that is because I don't know what Centmin Mod users intend to do in future MySQL data wise. I've seen Centmin Mod users try switching away from MariaDB to Oracle or Percona themselves with in-place upgrading/switching not 100% knowing what they're doing. So that plays on my mind.

    The equivalent would be me saying be careful choosing AlmaLinux if you intend to also use RHEL in your operations too interchangeably. But if you don't plan to use RHEL (which pretty sure alot of Centmin Mod users wouldn't), then AlmaLinux's direction isn't an issue. Same as if upgrade MariaDB 10.4+ isn't much of an issue if you never plan switching to Oracle or Percona 8.0.


    From my perspective, I don't really see any chance me paying US$349/yr per RHEL subscription and switching or using RHEL anytime in the future. That would be like +US$70K/yr in additional costs switching to RHEL :eek: So AlmaLinux's direction moving away from 1:1 isn't as much of an issue. But yes you're mean using CentOS Stream as a basis - that we will have to wait and see.

    I've been adding more testing to Centmin Mod including CentOS Stream, so will be interesting to compare the divergence in YUM packages etc over time :)

    cmm-github-workflow-status-badges-10.png

    cmm-github-workflow-compare-almalinux8-rockylinux8-oraclelinux8-02.png
     
  2. buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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    I absolutely didn't write my responses as a bogeyman, everyone makes their own decision.
    Since there is still a 1:1 RHEL option with Rocky.
    There is absolutely no reason to purchase an official RHEL license, if you don't want to.

    In addition, but now I'm going to repeat my own answers, which I don't prefer to do myself. There is absolutely and totally no more or any single use case for AlmaLinux with its Stream source(s). Since Stream is already available for that use case. And AlmaLinux cannot keep their promise of 10 year release support during version 8 and 9 1:1 only after 1 year, which is why they are not able to deliver. Similar to CentOS since 2020.
     
  3. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    That would only be true if you disregard any knowledge and expertise AlmaLinux team can bring on top of the base CentOS Stream code. I guess we won't know until some time passes :)
     
  4. buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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    I never mentioned "disregard any knowledge" myself.
    If the AlmaLinux team is so assured of their "knowledge and expertise", why do they fork RHEL anyway, and didn't start a distro from scratch? There's a reason, of course. And that one has been discussed many times here on the forum.
     
  5. rdan

    rdan Well-Known Member

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    Agree, but same goes to Rocky.
     
  6. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    A bit more insight from AlmaLinux team on how they are moving forward for EL8/EL9 Reddit - Dive into anything with the discussion related to AMD Zenbleed patch they did

    and Reddit - Dive into anything

    Really is just wait and see to see how it pans out for AlmaLinux, Rocky Linux and Oracle Linux.
     
  7. buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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    I was already afraid of it. This is definitely not good news.

    A former fellow student of mine also had the same suspicions and puts it this way in the blogpost:
    AlmaLinux Stream
     
  8. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks for sharing
    Use case would be anyone who doesn't require 1:1 RHEL clone :)

    Seems this is in reference to another security patch for iperf3 to not confuse the previous AMD Zenbleed one. AFAIK, the iperf3 patch was already committed way upstream in Fedora right? I can see both sides of the argument, but really what's the issue? AlmaLinux already stated it isn't aiming to be 1:1 clone of RHEL anymore, so they're free to put their own spin on their development based on the decisions they have to make about their specific circumstances. So if you need 1:1 clone of RHEL, use Rocky Linux and if you don't then you can choose AlmaLinux.

    Of course we'll all be waiting AlmaLinux, Rocky Linux and Oracle Linux's paths forward for EL8/EL9 and EL10 developments to see how they pan out.
     
  9. buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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    "The entire premise and the only reason anyone uses CentOS is because it's rebuilt RHEL. Congratulations on undermining that."

    Exactly the same with Alma, it seems to me.
     
  10. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    You could also rephrase that, the only reason someone traditionally used CentOS was that it was the only free RPM/YUM distro. 2021+ onwards, that was changed to only reason folks used AlmaLinux, Rocky Linux and Oracle Linux were that they were free RPM/YUM distros. Now 2023+ onwards, will that still be the case?

    If Rocky Linux hypoethically, sad we're sticking with 1:1 clone of RHEL but to cover additional costs we are charging a monthly fee for it but it will be less that a RHEL subscription. But AlmaLinux not being 1:1 clone was still totally free. How would their respective user adoption rates change? If worse case situation occured and even Rocky Linux and Oracle Linux are unable to maintain 1:1 clone of RHEL development wise, how many folks will fork out $$$ to purchase RHEL subscriptions at US$349/yr per license/server? Or choose to still use AlmaLinux, Rocky Linux and Oracle Linix because they are free?

    But I get it alot of end users - including myself probably undervalue the amount of RHEL development work goes into RHEL to maintain 10yr major OS version life cycles and for development testing and bug fixes.

    In related note, Rocky Linux folks touched on what they're doing in comments Reddit - Dive into anything - including adding additional packages via SIG (Special Interest Groups) i.e. newer Kernels :cool:

     
  11. buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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  12. buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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    By the way, which I almost forget. I think AlmaLinux should or could also be a bit clearer.
    In nothing from their blog post: The Future of AlmaLinux is Bright. Turns out they switched to Stream. If you're that bright. Why don't you just say it?

    This is kinda similar to the same marketing from Red Hat. Which Stream also refer to:"Always Ready RHEL"

    "Stream+, if you will. Stream is a sane base because at some point it's mostly similar to RHEL".

    It's not that hard to just be honest. Nice talks for Uncle Leen and Aunt Karel. Developers are often highly trained, and could easily pierce through this marketing buzz.
     
  13. buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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    Interesting and I haven't noticed before. CloudLinux now uses AlmaLinux as its source.
    Also given AlmaLinux's recent move to Stream based.

    Is CloudLinux doing the same thing as Red Hat. Where AlmaLinux is CloudLinux's beta?
    Just like CentOS Stream is the beta of Red Hat's RHEL.
     
  14. rdan

    rdan Well-Known Member

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    This makes it more interesting and makes me more likely to avoid AlmaLinux :).
     
  15. cloud9

    cloud9 Premium Member Premium Member

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    I used CentOS because it was free not because it was 1:1 Rhel.

    I now use Alma Linux in favour of Rocky - Why - I used CloudLinux for years and had excellent support from them - Also dont care if its 1:1 rhel compatible - can only see Alma developing faster than rhel and being better myself

    If it all goes 'tits up' as we say in good ol Blighty then so long as I have a backup and the db - then switch to Rocky or AN other.......

    Cant see an issue from the minions like me who like free.....
     
  16. buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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    You are using CentOS because it is 1:1 Rhel. As the only non private CMM released, is 1:1 Rhel compatible with CentOS 1:1 only.
    Compatibility is essential for CMM on top of EL.
    And since @eva2000 is busy busy with paid clients.
    Less or maybe even non time is left to work on CMM, each time having to adapt to all the distro's that are not fully compatible.
    It all adds unnecessary extra work.
    Because all kinds of things can be different, distro among themselves.
    Switching every time with a small website is easy as pie.
    But with a very large website, there is no reason, that I can think of, switching between distros.
    Too much work and especially unnecessary if you don't have to.
     
  17. cloud9

    cloud9 Premium Member Premium Member

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    No - Running WHM/Cpanel - I chose CentOS over other flavours of linux
     
  18. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Yeah extra work maybe involved, though I have extra automated testing which should help tremendously too :) The automated testing already has picked up some OS distro differences that have/or need to address :D Though the differences aren't with AlmaLinux and Rocky Linux but how both differ compared to Oracle Linux - so not sure about the priority of focus there for me for Oracle Linux. My focus is more for AlmaLinux and Rocky Linux even though I have automated testing for Oracle Linux and CentOS Stream as well.

    cmm-github-workflow-status-badges-12.png
     
  19. buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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    Sorry, don't understand. So you are preferring CentOS or CentOS like distro's with 1:1 copy, over Stream based AlmaLinux? As you chose CentOS over....

    This is clearly explained with the fact that Oracle, has been adding its own code to Oracle Linux for years.
    Then over time, you start to see distinct differences from Rocky Linux, Oracle Linux and AlmaLinux.
    AlmaLinux has only been non upstream for a couple of days.

    And or but, Alma is adding unprecedented, downstream code in the last few hours only.
    See a quick overview of a simple copy of the latest edits.
    From just the last few hours.

    https://git.almalinux.org/rpms/WALinuxAgent/commit/9436eec39ed5e930fa557a6428d0304bee8e7ad9
    https://git.almalinux.org/rpms/rhel-system-roles/commit/9972a84a320e16a4f55577f51f4641c3146f2c4a
    https://git.almalinux.org/rpms/ipa/commit/2184916d1fff0a22cf95b2242d66c1f50dcf08e7
    https://git.almalinux.org/rpms/lorax/commit/156a88e74c000b0bc02914142b8ebaec9f67186a
    https://git.almalinux.org/rpms/resource-agents/commit/3aeeaa3dc4ade74b1a5ed6c5acd991ed9bc86c1f
    https://git.almalinux.org/rpms/sssd/commit/fb25bfdf12bff5821daee8994922ea8837d5879f
    https://git.almalinux.org/rpms/rhel-system-roles/commit/9972a84a320e16a4f55577f51f4641c3146f2c4a

    Since you are already noticing major differences between Oracle Linux and the other forks. Given the sources above, this will only increase for AlmaLinux as well.
     
  20. buik

    buik “The best traveler is one without a camera.”

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    Sorry for the confusion. Cpanel, recently started supporting distros outside of CentOS and rpm, like Ubuntu. Then your installation must be almost fairly new?

    But honestly, I have to tell you that I've been out of shared hosting for a while.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2023