Discover Centmin Mod today
Register Now

Email hosting solutions/email servers

Discussion in 'Domains, DNS, Email & SSL Certificates' started by JJC84, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    41,645
    9,380
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +14,408
    Local Time:
    1:14 AM
    Nginx 1.17.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    friendly debates are nice just remember rule #1 of the forums Forum Rules ;)

     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. robert syputa

    robert syputa Member

    70
    13
    8
    Jan 18, 2018
    Seattle
    Ratings:
    +38
    Local Time:
    11:14 AM
    latest
    10
    Thanks. However, the point is that this thread is about email servers and your points, such as overhead, do not make sense to me. What overhead are you talking about? V/W does not run anything in the background other than what you select to run.
    The purpose of using V/M is basically the same as using iRedmail or Mail in a box: to simplify setup and administration of a server. I have used iRedmail and it is not as well supported and the premium version that is needed for many functions is now expensive.
    MailinaBox looks like a good choice. If you look at the miab architecture page, it is the same email architecture as V/W: every element is the same including use of NGINX if you choose that option during installation. miab also provides Z-Push and NextCloud and the option of NSD4 for DNS. They both use cron to run routine tasks tasks such as backups and status checks. V/M uses mariadb not sqllite.

    This was offered as an option to consider, not as a one-size fits all solutoin.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Active Member

    213
    87
    28
    Aug 24, 2014
    Texas
    Ratings:
    +145
    Local Time:
    10:14 AM
    1.11.5
    MariaDB 10.0.28
    It's nice.. and a very valid option for someone who wants to do it all (hosting, mail, etc) from one server....
    But the complexity offered is, again in my opinion, overkill for a simple mail server.

    I personally prefer doing my DNS hosting elsewhere, and one of the reasons I didn't like MiB. CloudFlare is my poison of choice for DNS related as their updates to your DNS get pushed out extremely fast. MailCow is more targeted towards those that choose this option as it does not load the DNS related services locally, being dependent on outside providers.
    The one thing I don't like about CloudFlare is you can't make TLSA entries yet. They have promised that in the future.

    There are many options available now compared to rolling your own - which is a PITA to set up honestly.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. buik

    buik Well-Known Member

    1,193
    318
    83
    Apr 29, 2016
    Ratings:
    +937
    Local Time:
    5:14 PM
    Looks like. Absolutely true.
    Problem is simple.

    There is almost no commitment from the Mail in the box developer.
    This person is far too busy.
    Which is of course a personal choice and fine.

    That is a free choice, it only gives the question whether it is smart to use the software.
    I think it its not.

    I would rather look at Mailcow, several developers and almost daily updates.
    The only drawback of Mailcow v.s. Mail in a Box is Docker if you ask me.

     
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  5. robert syputa

    robert syputa Member

    70
    13
    8
    Jan 18, 2018
    Seattle
    Ratings:
    +38
    Local Time:
    11:14 AM
    latest
    10
    There are many alternative options discussed here.

    MailinaBox looks very good as does use of separately hosted email services such as Amazon simple email service or Zoho. I am using both of these as well as V/W.

    If you have several email users/boxes and do not

    A reason I am using V/W is that I already have the experience of setting it up, including checking of DNS, DKIM, letsencrypt cert, etc.
     
  6. buik

    buik Well-Known Member

    1,193
    318
    83
    Apr 29, 2016
    Ratings:
    +937
    Local Time:
    5:14 PM
    There are more than enough alternatives. Problem of a free alternative is maintenance.
    Nice alternatives have been shut down due to the lack of maintenance, new functions and patches.

    In my opinion, there are two options, feature wise, security wise.
    Mailcow and Mail in a box.
    Given the reply written above.
    Mailcow, I would advise.
     
  7. Tracy Perry

    Tracy Perry Active Member

    213
    87
    28
    Aug 24, 2014
    Texas
    Ratings:
    +145
    Local Time:
    10:14 AM
    1.11.5
    MariaDB 10.0.28
    Ironically... I was with ZoHo and that was the reason I set up my own email server again. Didn't like the limitations that were present with ZoHo (having to use multiple aliases, not being able to set up a dedicated email box for bounced message checking in XenForo and a few other small niglets).
     
  8. robert syputa

    robert syputa Member

    70
    13
    8
    Jan 18, 2018
    Seattle
    Ratings:
    +38
    Local Time:
    11:14 AM
    latest
    10
    I don't find that to be at all the case with Virtualmin/Webmin. V/W is not 'leading or bleeding edge'. Neither is mailinabox or iRedmail. their purpose is to grind away as an email server, not serve up web pages that must be done at the fastest possible speed to be competitive.

    I think that what most users want from self-hosted email is that it is reliable and relatively easy to administer. The first choice is NOT to self-host. But if you already know how to do it, then use something you're familiar with or is relatively well supported. If you cannot control/set rules for what is being sent, then do not use a self-hosted server because your users may/will get your site blacklisted, period. I got blacklisted a couple of times by sending out newsletters to registered users that met all CAN-SPAM requirements such as links to remove recipients email addresses. The blacklisting was caused by including some phrases that bots interpreted as spam. It was a industry type newsletter, far from being spam. I contacted the blacklists and submitted a form and the IPs were removed. I use third parties for newsletters most of the time because the costs are reasonable and the success rate is high.

    If you use mailinabox, iRedmail or any other self-hosted email server stack, most of the work is in setting up and managing users and, if you allow mass emailing, managing the site rating/blacklisting. None of these packages can do that work for you. If you use a third party service and you or your clients send out spam, those services may help compared to self-hosting but your site will get blacklisted if you spam or if the emails appear to be spam even if they are innocent stuff like newsletters to your subscribers. It never stops being a hassle completely.
     
  9. robert syputa

    robert syputa Member

    70
    13
    8
    Jan 18, 2018
    Seattle
    Ratings:
    +38
    Local Time:
    11:14 AM
    latest
    10
    Just from a personal perspective, I like the freedom of self-hosted email including for newsletters using Wordpress or other newsletter application. Self-hosting allows you to set up however many email boxes you like, do aliasing, etc. However, I use Amazon SES for now for mass emailing because the success rate is (seems to be) higher.

    Part of the reason why email is such a hassle is the abuse from spammers. But commercial sites have taken advantage of that to force use of their services in an autocratic fashion IMO. The email service business is estimated to be worth several billion dollars per year. Go figure.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

    41,645
    9,380
    113
    May 24, 2014
    Brisbane, Australia
    Ratings:
    +14,408
    Local Time:
    1:14 AM
    Nginx 1.17.x
    MariaDB 5.5/10.x
    Well I did my first time ever install of MailCow on a test VPS which I am about to cancel so nothing to loose :) Setup was fairly easy on CentOS 7 once I got CSF Firewall configured for it. Seems best for dedicated MailCow mail server using MailCow to best skip Centmin Mod install and just install CSF Firewall + MailCow. Especially, if you use Cloudflare and need a separate dedicated mail server so your main site origin server's IP is not leaked via mail headers :)

    I could probably fully automate a MailCow install on CentOS 7 if the domain is on Cloudflare and use Cloudflare API to the DNS required records for SPF,DKIM too. Is there an API or way to setup domain/user accounts in MailCow via command line ?? Maybe something for the future for Centmin Mod Premium Users to play with :)

    centos7-mailcow-inbox-01.png
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. robert syputa

    robert syputa Member

    70
    13
    8
    Jan 18, 2018
    Seattle
    Ratings:
    +38
    Local Time:
    11:14 AM
    latest
    10
    Although it is more than needed for an email server, Virtualmin/Webmin does provide easy setup of an email server including DKIM. In addition, it has modules to install, configure and update CSF, Spamassasin, Clamav, greylisting, and other features.
    Because Virtualmin/Webmin are broader server packages that have a large user group and paying customers (for pro version or custom work), the email server is unlikely to be left unsupported.
    The things I did not like about Virtualmin/Webmin/Cloudmin was that it did not support the latest software stacks. For example, using newer versions of Centos beyond the long-term releases was not supported. Ditto latest versions of NGINX, MariaDB, etc. Optimizing performance was almost out of the question because their updates could cause conflicts with the unsupported versions you manually install and configure.
    However, as a stand-alone email server for free that will very likely have future support, Virtualmin/Webmin is not a bad way to go. It will consume extra disk space and use more memory than a straight-stick email server, however, the interface is highly sophisticated and it does have a ton of modules for collaboration, email list services, etc. that could be used. Since most of the VPS now provide larger disk and memory space at low cost, that makes some of the arguments against using the web server plus email server package obsolete.

    V/W makes it easy to remove startup items, cron jobs, so that less memory is used. It can run on less than 1GB of memory. It also makes it easy to set limits on clients email so that spammers won't abuse your service.