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CentOS 8.x CentOS Project Shifts Focus To CentOS 8 Stream Effectively Ending CentOS 8 In 2021

Discussion in 'CentOS, Redhat & Oracle Linux News' started by eva2000, Dec 9, 2020.

  1. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    CentOS Project has announced some major news in that they're effectively cutting short CentOS 8's lifecycle from May 2029 to December 2021 next year and moving their focus to CentOS 8 Stream release as a development and continuous delivery ground for Redhat 8+ nightly updates Updates in CentOS 8 Stream will become what you see eventually as Redhat Errata updates for Redhat 8+. The gist of it is we're moving away from CentOS 8 stable certainty in development to CentOS 8 Stream with uncertainty. For this thread I've setup a shortcut URL you can use at https://community.centminmod.com/centos8stream/
    Other commentaries on Hacker News and Reddit and other forums
    They've effectively pushed production stable users who desire traditional stability in CentOS 7 long term stable (LTS) releases away from CentOS 8 to paid Redhat 8 Enterprise Linux licensing. While folks who can live on the edge a bit can move from CentOS 8 to CentOS 8 Stream which would have newer versions of the software which CentOS traditionally have been slow to release.

    Centmin Mod could have a home on CentOS 8 Stream as it effectively does some of this already i.e. using Nginx Mainline development branch and not Nginx stable with Nginx 1.19.x, Nginx using GCC versions 8/9 newer than CentOS 7 provided GCC 4.8.5 and PHP versions taken direct from PHP source rather than CentOS distro provided. CentOS 7 Rsync 3.2.3 planned is also another example. It could even make it easier for Centmin Mod as newer latest versions of software could potentially be available in CentOS 8 Stream that wouldn't be in CentOS 8 stable and that would me less work for me in either compiling by source or building custom RPMs. But some folks usage requirements do require stable long term release and CentOS 8 stable release is noww ending abrutly next year instead of 2029.

    Though we may see some new collaborators for CentOS 8 Stream development in the form of Intel and Facebook too
    Too earlier for my thoughts on what this means for Centmin Mod's CentOS 8 compatibility development outlined here. CentOS 8.3 has already started by renaming some of the repositories which will break existing folks automation and scripted CentOS 8 installations according to CentOS 8 Stream developer on Twitter and here.

    CentOS 6 was EOL last month on November 2020 so no more updates and CentOS 7 has full updates until end of this year 2020 with maintenance updates until June 30th, 2024. While CentOS 8 listed lifecycle has been updated to December 2021 next year.

    Interesting that in the CentOS Project blog post comments, the original CentOS founder is calling on making a new Linux OS distribution to fill the end of CentOS 8.
    Would that be good or bad. Cause if a new rebuild of RHEL to replace CentOS 8 stable comes to life, I can see in future all if not most previous CentOS 8 developers and RPM maintainers may focus on this new replacement OS and then CentOS 8 Stream might not get the development focus it needs too. So might be a wait and see process right now. CentOS 7 has until June 30th, 2024 anyway so another 4 years.

    From FAQ: CentOS Stream Updates there will not be a CentOS 9 version anymore.

    There maybe a low cost Redhat version in future too

    Centmin Mod & CentOS 8 Future



    My thoughts are evolving as I get more info on this CentOS 8 EOL announcement. So bookmark and watch this thread for updates as time goes by.

    As at December 12, 2020

    Fortunately, CentOS 7 is maintained until 2024. I started this thread for this to share my thoughts and plans and CentOS 8 news as it comes with my Centmin Mod members and info gathered so far we know
    1. Redhat has stated it will not block it’s source rpms or others from rebuilding from their sources so Rocky Linux and other rebuild projects can go ahead
    2. Cloud Linux Q1 2021
    3. CentOS 8 Stream is not a replacement for CentOS 8. But CentOS 8 Stream isn’t as buggy as folks make it out to be as it’s already tested twice, once internally and once via public t_functional test suite before stuff lands in CentOS 8 Stream and CentOS 8 Stream is only a rolling release for major versions and not minor versions. Basically, CentOS 8 Stream will become a continuous delivery stream that takes in Redhat nightly updates and will eventually become the Redhat Errata updates for Redhat 8+ OS.
    4. Cloud Linux and Rocky Linux are reaching out to each other to collaborate hopefully too.
    Guess I am fortunate that Centmin Mod’s CentOS 8 compatibility developments were still a work in progress while waiting on EPEL 8 to reach package parity with EPEL 7 CentOS 8.x - Centmin Mod CentOS 8 Compatibility Worklog. My thinking was what would be worse than release CentOS 8 support only for end users to find EPEL 8 packages that end users rely on not being available. But didn’t think there would be a worse case, CentOS 8 EOL in 12 months at end of 2021 !

    Centmin Mod did at once stage work/develop/test for Oracle Linux 6 compatibility ages ago, but with CentOS 7 release, focus was back on CentOS 7.x.

    So now I believe we have 3 contenders
    cPanel and other web hosting panels, probably would go Cloud Linux route and rest of community would support Rocky Linux. cPanel has already posted the plans on their own blog Cent OS 8 End-of-Life Announcement | cPanel Blog and will support continued CentOS 8 development, Cloudflare Linux 8, Rocky Linux 8.3+ and also start a cPanel Ubuntu LTS release version.

    But ultimately what broke is end users trust in CentOS. So guess that will drive folks to these 3 contenders. After all what good is there in control panels developing and support an OS where the actual end users and even distro package developers don’t have the demand and/or trust in?

    Guess I need to build an CentOS 8 rsync 3.23 RPM too for faster data transfers between distro/servers like I did for CentOS 7 https://community.centminmod.com/th...-with-xxhash-zstd-support-for-centos-7.20768/ - going be alot of data moving in the future LOL

     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  2. buik

    buik “Life is trying things to see if they work.” Premium Member

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    IBM TO ACQUIRE RED HAT | Centmin Mod Community Support Forums
    Unfortunately. Reality has become what we have suspected for years.

    On to a solution.

    CentOS was ideal as it has a stable basis (kernel etc) with new own compiled Centminmod software where needed.

    CentOS Stream is actually a beta version of Rhel, where all packages are beta-ish.

    In my opinion, this goes beyond the Centminmod ideal.

    I am thinking of the following options.

    Oracle Linux (rhel clone)
    The clone from the original founder of CentOS
    (if only the question is whether this project will really work)
     
  3. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Yeah it's wait and see but the original CentOS founders call on interesting is apparently growing dramatically on his Slack channel - a lot of folks interested are signing up. So that is a possibility too.

    Actually, from what I read CentOS 8 Stream will sit between Fedora and Redhat after 2021 so it wouldn't be as bleeding edge as Fedora in the overall scope, but CentOS 8 Stream will be newer than whatever Redhat's stable release. So really need to wait and see.

    For Centmin Mod, CentOS 7 is still around until 2024 so there is some time to wait and see. Realistically, looks like in future Centmin Mod development could be for CentOS 8 Stream/Oracle Linux 8 for the public masses. But I might start doing a private test of a version for Ubuntu as an option for myself right now (wouldn't have time to provide support for it publicly as I only release stuff I am willing to provide some support for).
     
  4. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    First case of breaking scripts automated/scripted CentOS 8 compatibility for DirectAdmin due to renaming of CentOS 8.3+ YUM repo names install on Centos 8.2 - Package requirements (oniguruma) were not met
     
  5. rdan

    rdan Well-Known Member

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    I think the best option is... switch to Ubuntu LTS rather than CentOS Beta.
     
  6. pamamolf

    pamamolf Premium Member Premium Member

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    I prefer Centos !
     
  7. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Former CentOS Founder has already setup a Github repo for Rocky Linux with intentions to be a CentOS alternate and rebuild against Redhat like before https://twitter.com/nixcraft/status/1336554585352105984

    Github repo at hpcng/rocky
    So will be interesting to see how this develops too :)

    As to the name
    With CentOS's announcement, the worse part is they've broken the trust end users had in them. That is hard to get back. So Rocky Linux could have a lot of folks backing it!
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  8. buik

    buik “Life is trying things to see if they work.” Premium Member

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    Speaking of my employer, there is a strong demand for a CentOS-like product. There are more than enough test clusters here with test activities. There is no need for an expensive RHEL license on test clusters, apart from what IBM - Red Hat wants to sell on every server.

    CentOS 8 Stream is already there if you want to.
    It is the cycle that runs before the RHEL release.

    Just like Windows Insiders on the Windows wagon.
    A beta that shoots to that next cycle shortly before release of the main product.

    Apart from the product itself, which can already be used. Seems to me it is indeed good to wait. Just analyze what happens. There is time to wait. Plenty of options.

    If you go the Debian road, I prefer Debian.
    Debian is the equivalent of CentOS.
    Rock solid LTS where needed edgie software with Centminmod software,
    just like Nginx etc.

    Ubuntu is the equivalent of CentOS Stream.
    In my opinion there is too much messing around with Ubuntu and Ubuntu packages these days. Mostly with their infamous and crappy SNAP. As Ubuntu is shifting more and more packages from open source packages with patch model to the semi closed source SNAP model.

    It does not matter to me which name they choose.
    They choose. What I do find important is what it delivers.
    Shortly after an announcement there is always a lot of publicity.

    But we need to see how many developers are actually going to help with Rocky.
    After publicity on a daily basis.

    Cloning a distro takes a lot of time. Time will tell if it will actually get off the ground.

    Also a question. Can they even make an RHEL clone when CentOS is stopped?

    I also wonder if Red Hat still makes her source available.
    SUSE, for example, is very sneaky. They only make the release source available.

    But not the updates. In short, rebuilds don't make sense. They officially complied with the GNU rules. But without update source. Your distro in the making is quite useless.

    About trust. It is up to CentOS to choose this Stream option. Quitting CentOS in 2021 is a sewing trick.

    If you want to stop neatly, stop CentOS 8 when the support stops in 20... i mean 2029?

    There have been no previous promises about CentOS 9.
    There have been promises about CentOS 8.

    The fact that IBM - Red Hat stops CentOS within a year indicates that there is 0.0 interest in giving away the flagship for free.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  9. Qu Don

    Qu Don Premium Member Premium Member

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    More fragmentation, as with all acquisitions, more so with IBM at the helm, it's only a matter of when.

    Would love to test your Ubuntu for learning purposes if you don't mind. I have a traction hunch somewhere in my mushy brain.

    Edit: I second the debian route
     
  10. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Does Debian support LXD LXD - Debian Wiki ? Haven't checked. When I played with Ubuntu and LXD containers it was fun so that's one aspect I'd factor in.
    Guess depends on how many developers CentOS pissed off with this announcement and to what extent :D

    True, they are probably making less with Covid maybe some companies are cancelling RHEL subscriptions and were planning to move to CentOS to save $$$?
    Definitely such Ubuntu/Debian version would be private for quite a while as I have no intention in dividing my spare time even more providing support for such at the beginning though.
     
  11. buik

    buik “Life is trying things to see if they work.” Premium Member

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    Don't know. But i don't like containers on single server systems like Centminmod.
    Please don't use containers on the valuable golden Centminmod you now have in your hands :)
     
  12. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Oh I'd never use containers for actual Centmin Mod components themselves i.e. container for each piece of software. But being able to install Centmin Mod within LXD container might be nice from limited tests I did with
    Nginx HTTP/2 HTTPS Benchmarks for Centmin Mod vs Easyengine vs Webinoly vs VestaCP vs OneInStack :)
     
  13. pamamolf

    pamamolf Premium Member Premium Member

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    Please no containers for Centminmod !!!
     
  14. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Yeah not for Centmin Mod core software components at least.

    Looks like Cloud Linux folks are stepping up to the plate too Page 3 | The end of CentOS | Web Hosting Talk

    Alot of my clients already use Cloud Linux's KernelCare for rebootless Kernel updates :)
     
  15. buik

    buik “Life is trying things to see if they work.” Premium Member

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    Very noble. An RHEL clone doesn't seem to be a problem. More than enough iniatives. Problem is that EPEL also could switch to CentOS Stream. Maintaining CentOS stream and no longer supporting CentOS is difficult. So you're going to miss a lot of packages later on.
     
  16. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Yeah that is one thing to keep in mind - especially for Centmin Mod which does use some packages from EPEL as well as REMI YUM repos.
     
  17. buik

    buik “Life is trying things to see if they work.” Premium Member

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    Remi is not a problem as he does support: 'Maintained Enterprise Linux (RHEL / CentOS / Other clones)' and not especially CentOS.
     
  18. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    +1 on that

    Rocky Linux Reddit community has been created now too https://www.reddit.com/r/RockyLinux/ :) And Discourse forum Rocky Linux Discourse
     
  19. buik

    buik “Life is trying things to see if they work.” Premium Member

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    If I have to bet now, I bet on Cloudlinux free or whatever the name will be.
    Apart from the clones that are already released.

    CloudLinux free is sort of already forked.

    They just need (of course in perspective) to rebuild the kernel and a few Cloudlinux specific patched rpm packages, and they are ready to rock.
     
  20. eva2000

    eva2000 Administrator Staff Member

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    Yup Cloud Linux probably the one I'd be leaning towards. They also have CageFS product CloudLinux - Main | New template

    Always wanted to see if I could leverage and use CageFS for Centmin Mod :)